uring the closing Brad shares some of the current research on using street runoff to irrigate roadside plants, as well as four water assessment suggestions that he uses to evaluate every site. Find out more about him at harvestingrainwater.com. Desert Harvesters' website, desertharvesters.org, has numerous resources that expand on the conversation Brad and I had today.

One piece I recommend you read is the Manifeasto (PDF) by Kimi Eisele, as it is a one-page poetic encapsulation of everything Desert Harvesters stands for, including the vision and approach to spreading knowledge about native plants, and the power of celebration and capturing water runoff. Through the use of celebration Desert Harvesters created community that leads to a greater buy-in from the changemakers in not only Tucson, but other regions as well. Through actions that started out illegally, with those first curb cuts, Brad and the others in his neighborhood showed that these ideas of using street run-off worked. Leveraging those two ideas shaped through the creation of the cookbook, they expanded the circle of influence further and further, accomplishing more collectively than through the actions of a given individual or organization. 

Resources:
Harvesting Rainwater (Brad’s Site)
Desert Harvesters The Desert Harvesters’ Manifeasto (PDF)
Multi-Use Rain Garden Plant Lists

His books, like what he shares in this interview, are filled with passionate personal presentations, balanced with a reservation towards any claim or information that sounds too good to be true. Can fermented foods change your life? Yes, but not in a miraculous way. What they will do is change your relationship to food, health, the cycles of the world, and the context of your diet. You can find out more about Sandor at his website, wildfermentation.com, and all of his books are available through Chelsea Green Publishing. If you are interested in picking up those books use the links in the show notes as a small portion of your purchase goes towards supporting the podcast.

If you are wondering how to make fermented foods, pick up a copy of Wild Fermentation and begin reading. As soon as you encounter something that sounds interesting, try it. Make a small batch. A pint, a liter, a half gallon. However you want to measure it, start somewhere. You have the accumulated knowledge of hundreds of generations behind you. You can do this. The bacteria and yeast want to help you make delicious, wonderful foods. Go for it.

You might just be surprised what you learn about food, and yourself. If along the way you have successes, failures, or questions you want to share, get in touch with me. or email: The Permaculture Podcast.

Up next week on December 3 Brad Lancaster returns to share his work the the Desert Harvesters and collecting water in an urban environment. December 10, Jereme Zimmerman continues the fermentation conversation when we talk about Making Mead like a Viking. The last interview of the year comes out on December 17, and is with Taj Scicluna, better known by many as The Perma Pixie. She got up early to talk with me about the current state of Permaculture in the world. Until the next time, take care of Earth, yourself, and each other.

Resources:

Wild Fermentation (Sandor's Website)
Wild Fermentation (The Book)
The Art of Fermentation
The Revolution Will Not Be Microwaved

We also digress in the middle to talk about nocino, an Italian sipping liquer, which you can find a recipe for at Lisa’s site, Burdock and Rose, and pick up a copy of her book at Timber Press.

When it comes to Midwest Foraging I agree with the quote from Sam Thayer that graces the cover, “A beautiful book that any forager in the Midwest will want to own.” As there is an overlap in plants from this book to where I am in the Mid-Atlantic, it’s a good addition to those book shelves as well. The layout and format leads to a book that you can, as Dan De Lion recommended, spend time with to leisurely browse and read to build a familiarity with plants which you can then begin to recognize as you go about your daily walks or journeys into the landscape.The entries, which are arranged alphabetically around a common name, include the latin binomial name, very important for proper discussion and identification, along with which parts are edible, a short introduction, and one to a few color pictures. Common features you’ll find in many field guides include descriptive text, how and what to gather, how to eat the plants, and, where necessary, cautions about poisonous plants that have similar identifying features. Where this book stands out from some earlier field guides is the inclusion of information on where and when to gather, very important for knowing the right time of year to look for a particular plant; and notes about future harvests. This latter portion in particular caught my attention because using those entries we can wildcraft ethically to insure plants are available for ongoing use and so we can tend to Zone 4 and the wild places. With 115 plants included, Midwest Foraging covers a lot of ground and is a good first choice for a beginning forager in the region covered. For more experienced folks with a larger library this is a valuable companion to include with your other field guides. Add a copy to your library by ordering from Timber Press or your local retailer, where the book lists for $24.95.

If you enjoyed this conversation with Lisa and would like to add your thoughts to the discussion, or your own review of Midwest Foraging, leave a comment below. 

John and I discuss talk about his life as a farmer and how he is transitioning away from a grain-based diet for his hogs toward developing perennial forages. Familiar with permaculture, he uses tiered priorities to describe his zone model of production, which influences how he interacts with the land. To establish this kind of system John also takes a long view of this work, looking out twenty years in order to reasonably move from the current model to something perennial and permanent. You can find out more about John and his products at: BaconSnackSticks.com Singing Prairie Farm (Facebook)

That world is an abundant one for all life. What world do you want to live in? What are you doing each day to make that world a reality? 

If you'd like to hear the first episode on this topic check out my interview with Erin Harvey.

I wanted to speak with Kirsten on this subject because of her candor in some of our conversations about what it's like to run a farm, yet I didn't know her story or that of Joshua Farm. We've shared lunch at a farm tour and spoke about broader issues involving urban farming in Harrisburg, our state capital. We've attended the same meetings involving local initiatives where Kirsten asked pointed questions and provided personal insights. In many ways she is a mainstay of the regional sustainable farming community, and I'm thankful she's here. Her passion for farming and devotion to this work is ever-present. I found this out when, during the interview, her doorbell rang. I paused the conversation as she answered the door, and there was a customer to pick up their CSA share. At nearly 9 o'clock at night.

That Kirsten contemplates her role as a farmer and the role of Joshua Farm is also apparent. I say that because I think is the least I've spoken during an interview. Each time I was ready to interject and ask a question, her narrative continued in the direction I planned to take us, and the unspoken question was answered. Lastly among my many reasons for interviewing Kirsten is that I visited Joshua Farm.  Being local, this site provided a place I could go to in order to learn and in turn provide a more useful interview.

After the interview wrapped there were some things Kirsten wanted to add that didn't make it into the interview proper. One of those is “SPIN Farming”, which is a program designed to get a small scale farm up and running, profitably, in a short amount of time. Though Kirsten doesn't agree with everything in this method, there are some pieces that you may find useful. There is some information on the website, though most of the content appears to be made available through purchased PDF downloads or books, at various price points, with the total package running several hundred dollars. I can't speak to the content or value of this product, and am not endorsing it in any way, but you can find out more by going to spinfarming.com and taking a look around. There is a mix of freely available content to get you started, and see if you might be interested.

Her other recommendation I noted was Growing for Market magazine, which offers numerous resources for farmer's who grow to sell. I'm not familiar with it beyond Kirsten's mention, but when I went to the main page of the website, there was Richard Wiswall with a recommendation for the magazine. I mention Richard Wiswall because Kirsten recommended his book The Organic Farmer's Business Handbook. For the number of times I've heard his name and this book mentioned, it seems like the perfect place to start your research into the business of starting your own farm. Looking into Agsquared farm planning software the current feature set includes:

• Interactive Farm Map.
• Crop Planner.
• Planting Calculators.
• Daily Calendar.
• Smart Scheduling.
• Farm Journal.
• Spreadsheet Importer.

Resources:
Joshua Farm
The Joshua Group
Agsquared
Growing for Market
Richard Wiswall

Farms:
Goldfinch Farm CSA
Greensgrow Farms
Mildred's Daughter

My guest is Jeff Lowenfels, co-author, along with Wayne Lewis, of Teaming With Microbes: The Organic Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web, which recently released a revised edition. He was recommended as a guest by Dr. Doug Tallamy of Bringing Nature Home. Located in Alaska, Jeff writes a weekly gardening column for the Anchorage Daily News, without missing a single week in more than 30 years. This makes him, according to the Garden Writers Association, the longest running garden columnist in the United States. His work is important because whether you are a gardener, farmer, attorney, or Permaculturist, who works with the earth, you need to have an understanding of the soil food web and the inter-actions and inter-relationships of the life in the soil. Building soil builds life. We spend our time together discussing the importance of supporting this system, continually marveled at it's productivity and efficiency, starting with the smallest members: the bacteria, archaea, and fungi. We need to support this system. Organic processes: mulching, composting, and compost teas, are the way to go. If you would like to learn more about the soil, I highly recommend Jeff's book, Teaming With Microbes: The Organic Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web. It is now a part of my standard permaculture library.

If you have questions or comments that arise from this episode, contact me: The Permaculture Podcast

Resources:

Teaming With Microbes: The Organic Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web

Mycorrhizal Applications

Dr. Elaine Ingham

Rodale Institute

Paul Stamets Articles and Studies on Compos<br />t Tea Tea for Trees Enhancing Phyto-nutrient Content, Yield, and Quality of Vegetables with Compost Tea in the Tropics

Promoting Plant Growth with Compost Teas (PDF)

The Grass is Greener at Harvard

The Myth of Compost Tea The Myth of Compost Tea Revisited

The Myth of Compost Tea III The Myth of Compost Tea IV